La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

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La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par V.Marchais le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:10

Bonsoir à tous,

Je sors d'une après-midi de formation obligatoire sur l'évaluation - intitulé comme tel officiellement - et je voulais d'une part vous faire part des infos que j'y ai eues, et d'autre part tenter de savoir si d'autres ont eu des formations similaires, ou ont tout simplement entendu parler de cette réforme de l'évaluation, parce que j'ai halluciné devant ce nouveau déballage d'idéologie aussi doucereuse que violente.

Pour aller droit au but, il paraît que le ministère doit faire paraître en juin le prochain volet de la Refondation : la réforme de l'évaluation.

Nous n'aurions plus le droit d'évaluer par disciplines sous forme d'une succession de notes donnant lieu à une moyenne. En fait, la note figurant sur le bulletin ne devra plus être une moyenne. Il faudra (si tout cela est confirmé) multiplier les évaluations formatives non notées (le droit à l'erreur) et programmer une ou deux évaluations par période pour évaluer les grandes compétences disciplinaires et transdisciplinaires, de préférence interdisciplinaire, l'évaluation. Le modèle étant, bien entendu, vous le voyez venir gros comme une maison, l'EPI. Donc, en gros, en Français, on ne met plus de notes (ou en tout cas rien susceptible d'entrer dans une moyenne figurant sur un bulletin parce que les moyennes, c'est posé : c'est mal), on fait du formatif, et on note une ou deux fois dans le trimestre (avec le droit à une deuxième chance, bien sûr) de préférence en EPI. Et comment on fait pour mettre une note comme ça en une fois sur la base de compétences (parce qu'on note, la ministre l'a dit, mais on se base sur les compétences, dit le monsieur, pas sur des barèmes qui les décomposent artificiellement et n'ont aucune valeur scientifique heu ) ? Ben à la louche. Enfin, y dit ça mieux que ça, le monsieur. Il nous brosse dans le sens du poil et déclare : "Vous êtes des professionnels, vous êtes capables de dire, à un moment : j'estime que tel élève, à ce moment, en est à ce niveau de compétence, et je vais traduire cela par telle note pour ce domaine."
Et comment qu'on va faire pour évaluer transdisciplinairement des compétences sous forme de notes ? Je vous le donne en cent, je vous le donne en mille : on va se réunir pour définir les attendus pour chaque niveau de compétence : s'il sait faire ça, je mets tant, s'il va jusque là, on monte à tant...
Voilà. Après la concertation avec les douze écoles du secteur, les conseils de cycle, les conseils par discipline pour répartir les points au programme année par année, le conseil péda pour définir les EPI, les heures de concertation pour les EPI, la défense de ce qu'on peut encore défendre au CA, on se réunira pour définir nos critères de notation transdisciplinaire...

Le nouveau collège : 18 heures de cours par semaine + 20 heures de réunion...

Heureusement qu'on va avoir la plate-forme numérique pour ne plus avoir de cours à préparer...

_________________
visitez le site http://www.reformeducollege.fr/

V.Marchais
Bon génie


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:13

C'est pas possible qu'on puisse laisser passer ça deux ans avant l'expulsion du PS ! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par V.Marchais le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:17

C'est sûr que si on remplace l'évaluation traditionnelle par une évaluation façon TPE institutionnalisée, on va très vite démontrer la parfaite efficacité du nouveau collège : 18 pour tout le monde, même pour ceux qui ne fichent rien, n'apprennent jamais rien.

Pas sûre que ça change nos résultats à PISA pour autant - et encore moins la question des inégalités scolaires.

_________________
visitez le site http://www.reformeducollege.fr/

V.Marchais
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Mandy8 le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:18

affraid

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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par lotta le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:19

J'ai envie de pleurer...Ils sont en train de tout détruire...


Dernière édition par lotta le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:20, édité 1 fois

lotta
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Croustibapt le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:20

Pourquoi serait-ce mauvais ?
Enseigne-t-on aux élèves dans le but de les évaluer ?

(je ne suis pas pour la réforme, ni contre, ça me fait juste réfléchir sur ma pratique. Pas taper ! Very Happy )

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Croustibapt
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Fires of Pompeii le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:20

@V.Marchais a écrit:C'est sûr que si on remplace l'évaluation traditionnelle par une évaluation façon TPE institutionnalisée, on va très vite démontrer la parfaite efficacité du nouveau collège : 18 pour tout le monde, même pour ceux qui ne fichent rien, n'apprennent jamais rien.

Pas sûre que ça change nos résultats à PISA pour autant - et encore moins la question des inégalités scolaires.

Ou alors bien au contraire, si on note par rapport à ce que les élèves savent faire, leur compétence "globale", et pas par critères (qui semblent parfois favoriser), beaucoup auront 4 et le ministère verra la bêtise de sa réforme

Spoiler:
Ou plutôt non, le ministère dira qu'on n'a pas compris comment noter ces chérubins furieux

_________________
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par hhelene le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:21

On en est vraiment là ?
C'est vraiment la fin ?


hhelene
Niveau 2


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Pianocktail le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:21

Je n'ai pas eu cette formation mais dans mon REP+ une concertation "évaluation" est imposée l'an prochain...

Le collège va devenir l'école des fans !

Pianocktail
Niveau 5


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Al le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:21

Laughing

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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Ilse le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:21

Pourquoi j'ai ouvert ce post.... C'est de pire en pire...

Ilse
Érudit


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par VanGogh59 le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:22

Ils pourront comme ça justifier leurs réunions à la pelle en nous rétorquant qu'on n'a plus de copies à corriger...
Pitoyable ! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:25

Non, sérieux, j'ai plus la foi là. Je commence à penser à une reconversion, deux ans à peine après être entré dans le métier. Tout ce qui me passionne là-dedans, malgré les nombreuses difficultés de débutant que je dois encore surmonter, est en train d'être anéanti façon Daesh par ce gouvernement. Tout. Selon la réforme, je serai encore plus en retard pour apprendre à mes élèves tout ce qui me semble prioritaire. Selon les programmes, je ne pourrai plus faire de grammaire comme je l'entends, cette manière héritée de Revéret, des Terre des lettres et de ce forum qui m'a valu des compliments des élèves comme des parents et qui, pour la première fois, m'a permis d'observer des progrès chez les élèves les plus faibles. Et selon ce projet, je ne pourrai plus pratiquer les petites évaluations nombreuses et régulières qui permettent aux élèves d'assimiler, de progresser et de se motiver. C'est fini. Je commençais tout juste à me trouver.

Et au-delà de mon petit moi, quel sens pour ce métier ? Comment imaginer servir encore ses convictions politiques dans ce contexte ? Croire qu'on participe à l'instruction de tous les enfants ? Tout s'en va. Tout.

Je pète un câble je crois. Semaine très éprouvante sans doute.


Dernière édition par Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:36, édité 3 fois

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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Mona Lisa Klaxon le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:26

pourquoi on ne supprime pas directement toute évaluation, puisque c'est mal? Et pourquoi on n'arrêterait pas de corriger, puisqu'on est mauvais dans ce domaine, visiblement? Allons au bout. (et libérons-nous des copies, youpi!) Twisted Evil
(en attendant, ça me donne franchement envie de mettre 36/40 à toutes mes copies de brevet en juin. Au moins, pour une fois, je serai innovante)

Mona Lisa Klaxon
Esprit éclairé


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Opale le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:26

Dans mon établissement (REP+), une classe de 4ème a été choisie pour tester "l'évaluation positive" : des évaluations formatives évaluées par compétences seulement et une évaluation finale notée par trimestre, suivie éventuellement (autant dire systématiquement) d'une période de remédiation et d'un rattrapage. On doit ensuite transformer les compétences obtenues tout au long de trimestre en une note à l'aide d'un logiciel. La note figurant sur le bulletin trimestriel pour chaque matière est donc la moyenne entre la note finale chiffrée et la note correspondant aux compétences.
Bilan : c'est un échec cuisant ! Les élèves ne travaillent pas, n'apprennent pas, ne s'y mettent qu'avant le rattrapage. Même les plus sérieux d'entre eux reconnaissent moins travailler depuis que nous sommes passés à ce système. Malgré ce constat, l'administration est ravie et va étendre le dispositif à toutes les classes de 6e à la rentrée prochaine...
Je n'ose imaginer ce que ça serait si l'interdisciplinaire s'en mêlait...

Opale
Niveau 1


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Al9 le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:26

Shocked affraid No

Al9
Niveau 9


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Sowana le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:26

@V.Marchais a écrit:Bonsoir à tous,

Je sors d'une après-midi de formation obligatoire sur l'évaluation - intitulé comme tel officiellement - et je voulais d'une part vous faire part des infos que j'y ai eues, et d'autre part tenter de savoir si d'autres ont eu des formations similaires, ou ont tout simplement entendu parler de cette réforme de l'évaluation, parce que j'ai halluciné devant ce nouveau déballage d'idéologie aussi doucereuse que violente.

Pour aller droit au but, il paraît que le ministère doit faire paraître en juin le prochain volet de la Refondation : la réforme de l'évaluation.

Nous n'aurions plus le droit d'évaluer par disciplines sus forme d'une succession de notes donnant lieu à une moyenne. En fait, la note figurant sur le bulletin ne devra plus être une moyenne. Il faudra (si tout cela est confirmé) multiplier les évaluations formatives non notées (le droit à l'erreur) et programmer une ou deux évaluations par période pour évaluer les grandes compétences disciplinaires et transdisciplinaires, de préférence interdisciplinaire, l'évaluation. Le modèle étant, bien entendu, vous le voyez venir gros comme une maison, l'EPI. Donc, en gros, en Français, on ne met plus de notes (ou en tout cas rien susceptible d'entrer dans une moyenne figurant sur un bulletin parce que les moyennes, c'est posé : c'est mal), on fait du formatif, et on note une ou deux fois dans le trimestre (avec le droit à une deuxième chance, bien sûr) de préférence en EPI. Et comment on fait pour mettre une note comme ça en une fois sur la base de compétences (parce qu'on note, la ministre l'a dit, mais on se base sur les compétences, dit le monsieur, pas sur des barèmes qui les décomposent artificiellement et n'ont aucune valeur scientifique heu ) ? Ben à la louche. Enfin, y dit ça mieux que ça, le monsieur. Il nous brosse dans le sens du poil et déclare : "Vous êtes des professionnels, vous êtes capables de dire, à un moment : j'estime que tel élève, à ce moment, en est à ce niveau de compétence, et je vais traduire cela par telle note pour ce domaine."
Et comment qu'on va faire pour évaluer transdisciplinairement des compétences sous forme de notes ? Je vous le donne en cent, je vous le donne en mille : on va se réunir pour définir les attendus pour chaque niveau de compétence : s'il sait faire ça, je mets tant, s'il va jusque là, on monte à tant...
Voilà. Après la concertation avec les douze écoles du secteur, les conseils de cycle, les conseils par discipline pour répartir les points au programme année par année, le conseil péda pour définir les EPI, les heures de concertation pour les EPI, la défense de ce qu'on peut encore défendre au CA, on se réunira pour définir nos critères de notation transdisciplinaire...

Le nouveau collège : 18 heures de cours par semaine + 20 heures de réunion...

Heureusement qu'on va avoir la plate-forme numérique pour ne plus avoir de cours à préparer...

Oui, mais alors à ce tarif, c'est aussi 0 heure de correction à la maison, et pas beaucoup plus de préparation. Parce que honnêtement, préparer quoi ? Maintenant, ne vous méprenez pas, ça me fait vomir, mais je suis certaine que ce genre de raisonnement réjouit nombre de mes collègues et explique leur silence. Honteux, je n'ai pas passé le concours pour cautionner toute cette m.... furieux  !

Sowana
Niveau 8


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par barèges le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:28

Décret sur les statuts + réforme du collège + réforme des programmes + refonte de l'évaluation... un joli trèfle à quatre feuilles.

barèges
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par isabe le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:29

Mais qu'est-ce qu'on va faire dans toutes ces réunions si on n'a plus de copies ??? heu

On concourt pour la dernière place à PISA...

isabe
Niveau 8


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par lotta le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:29

Comme toi, Sylvain, je ne vois pas mon métier juste comme un gagne-pain. Je ne pourrai pas faire des choses avec lesquelles je ne suis pas d'accord.
Je songe aussi à une reconversion mais laquelle ?
Et puis je pense à tous ces élèves qu'on va sacrifier, à ma fille...

lotta
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Septimus le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:30

Non mais quelle folie! Ils peuvent déboulonner les plaques "collège" et les remplacer par "garderie", ce sera plus honnête.

Quand d'Ormesson disait de NVB que c'était un Atilla en jupon ill était tout à fait dans le vrai, rien ne repoussera après elle. Il faut vraiment faire quelque chose on ne peut pas la laisser tout saccager!

Vraiment je vais de plus en plus songer à rendre mon tablier et retourner dans l'archéo...

Septimus
Niveau 9


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:30

@lotta a écrit:Comme toi, Sylvain, je ne vois pas mon métier juste comme un gagne-pain. Je ne pourrai pas faire des choses avec lesquelles je ne suis pas d'accord.
Je songe aussi à une reconversion mais laquelle ?
Et puis je pense à tous ces élèves qu'on va sacrifier, à ma fille...

Ce qui me fais paniquer c'est que je n'ai aucune option. Je ne suis bon à rien, sinon à faire des explications de texte. Mais j'ai la "chance" d'être célibataire et sans enfant...

Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par arcenciel le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:31

@Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain a écrit:Ce qui me fais paniquer c'est que je n'ai aucune option. Je ne suis bon à rien, sinon à faire des explications de texte.
Tiens bon! fleurs2 trefle fleurs2

arcenciel
Monarque


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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par Guillaume le Grand le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:37

@Sylvain de Saint-Sylvain a écrit:
@lotta a écrit:Comme toi, Sylvain, je ne vois pas mon métier juste comme un gagne-pain. Je ne pourrai pas faire des choses avec lesquelles je ne suis pas d'accord.
Je songe aussi à une reconversion mais laquelle ?
Et puis je pense à tous ces élèves qu'on va sacrifier, à ma fille...

Ce qui me fais paniquer c'est que je n'ai aucune option. Je ne suis bon à rien, sinon à faire des explications de texte. Mais j'ai la "chance" d'être célibataire et sans enfant...
Tu feras comme plein de collègues qui n'en ont plus rien à secouer de leur boulot. Un travail à la chaine comme tant d'autres

_________________
''C'est drôle comme les gens qui se croient instruits éprouvent le besoin de faire chier le monde''. Boris Vian

''Nous n'acceptons pas de vérité promulguée : nous la faisons nôtre d'abord par l'étude et par la discussion et nous apprenons à rejeter l'erreur, fut-elle mille fois estampillée et patentée. Que de fois, en effet, le peuple ignorant a-t-il dû reconnaître que ses savants éducateurs n'avaient d'autre science à lui enseigner que celle de marcher paisiblement et joyeusement à l'abattoir, comme ce boeuf des fêtes que l'on couronne de guirlandes en papier doré." Elisée Reclus

Guillaume le Grand
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Re: La prochaine réforme : l'évaluation

Message par marjolie.june le Jeu 21 Mai 2015 - 18:38

A peine remise de la claque d'hier, voilà qu'on s'en prend une autre dans la tronche...

marjolie.june
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